Taking Back My Life from Burnout – S02 E09

S2 E09: Taking Back My Life from Burnout

Outline

Burnout and its causes with a personal story.

• Melissa Asti is a native of Massachusetts who is passionate about understanding human behavior and fostering growth.
• After graduating from the University of Richmond with a degree in psychology, she transitioned to leadership development at an e-commerce company.
• She shares her burnout story, mentioning a lack of balance in their work and personal life.
• She emphasizes the importance of alignment and fulfillment in work, citing the third of our lives spent working.
• She experienced physical symptoms (headaches, exhaustion) due to prolonged screen time and stress during the COVID-19 pandemic.
• She struggled to balance work and personal life, leading to poor sleep and decreased productivity.

Burnout in remote work, connection, and boundaries.

• She experienced burnout while working from home, feeling ungrounded and overworked. 
• Burnout can lead to adding more tasks to the schedule, contributing to further exhaustion. 
• She shared how the connection piece was missing in virtual work, leading to burnout.
• Speaker 3 navigated a new role by setting boundaries and prioritizing self-care.

Career transition from research to E-commerce, prioritizing work-life balance and meaningful work.

• Laura Noel transitioned from research to E-commerce, finding overlap in values and helping people.
• Noel's passion projects included coaching a school team and creating communities of practice for state education agencies.
• She found meaning in work by aligning with values and helping people achieve their full potential.
• She took agency in redesigning roles within the current company through boundary-setting and internal mobility.

Managing burnout by recognizing signs and taking proactive steps to prevent it.

• Laura and Speaker 3 discuss burnout prevention through self-awareness and intentionality.
• Speaker 3 prioritizes self-care by pausing work to recharge and refill their cup.

Prioritizing self-care to avoid burnout and improve productivity.

• Laura Noel prioritizes self-care by scheduling personal time before client appointments.
• Noel believes prioritizing self-care leads to better leadership and more innovative ideas.
• Laura Noel and Speaker 3 discuss the importance of taking breaks and practicing self-care to avoid burnout.
• They emphasize the importance of identifying what you love and setting boundaries to maintain energy and productivity.

Transcript

Welcome back to another episode of Rat Race Reboot if you've been following along. This is now episode 11. On the topic of burnout, we've been covering the different aspects of burnout in short, bite-size pieces. And I'm grateful to welcome Melissa Asti to the show because she's going to share, and through our dialogue, her experience with burnout. What were some of the signs, and what were some of the triggers that kind of caused it? And how did she recognize that and then make it through to the other side? And I think this will be an inspiring conversation for those of you listening. So, first and foremost, Melissa, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much, Laurie; I'm excited to be on the show. Oh, my gosh, me too. I've been looking forward to this for quite a long time. So I'm really grateful for you having the courage to be here, to pour into our listeners, and to share a little bit of your story. I'm really interested in your transition to the field of organizational development. And in the master's program, what inspired you to kind of go down that path?

Yeah, absolutely. So, it's taken a lot of trial and error and reflection on my part to get here. And organizational psychology is not something that I knew existed. When I entered college, I remember loving psychology. I took AP Psychology in high school, and I was always motivated by people and behavior. I was always fascinated by these things. I remember just typing on my computer about what different fields in psychology are because I knew clinical psychology wasn't necessarily for me; it felt very heavy and something that I personally didn't want to do. 

So I knew there were other things out there in organizational psychology or even IO, and psychology popped up, and I was like, Oh, this is so fascinating. What is this? It's just the psychology of the workplace. Once I entered the workforce, obviously in more formal education, I remember reflecting a lot on what could be better, what could make me more motivated, and what could make my peers more motivated. And it's always been something that's fascinated me. And then I finally was like, you know what? This is the field for me; I love helping people. That's one of my values. And we work for a third of our lives. So, helping people find meaning and fulfillment and bringing their whole selves to work is something that just feels like the right place to be in. 

Yeah, I love that. And I love that you're, you're saying, we work for a third of our lives. And so that's one of the things I talk about quite a bit, which is alignment and doing work that maybe doesn't even feel like work because you love it. I mean, of course, we're putting in the time to get the requisite skills to do the work that we're doing. And we're putting in our time to serve in the way that we want to serve. But that at least that aspect of alignment and fulfillment is there because that's also one of the indicators of burnout, you know, that alignment, of course, you know, I did a previous episode on Passion and how our passions can often lead to burnout if we're not careful. But I love this alignment piece; it is so important to do meaningful, fulfilling work.

Yeah, and it's all about balance, too, I think, because as you start to hear my story, you know, you can find meaning in your work. But if it's too far on one side of the pendulum, that can also lead to burnout. So, how do I take care of myself? But also, how do I fulfill my values and my meaning through my work?

Well, I'd love to hear your story. I mean, it sounds like you had that meaning, but something got out of kilter and contributed to that burnout. So, if you don't mind, why don't you share a little bit of your story of what you noticed when you were experiencing burnout? How did this come about?

Yeah, definitely. So, I experienced burnout like many people during the COVID-19 pandemic. As you heard in my bio, I was a research assistant for a nonprofit organization that supported K to-12 students and educational outcomes. So I, like many people know, experienced this huge implosion. I guess that is how you could refer to it in education and what education looked like during the COVID-19 pandemic. So not only was I stuck at home and dealing with the stress of this pandemic, fearing for my health and other people's and loved ones' health, and, you know, the state of our country. But I experienced this shift in work where, you know, my nonprofit organization that I was working for at the time was like, we could step up here and do a lot of work to sort of pave the way for what education looks like, in solving a lot of the issues that students were experiencing, which was great and felt extremely meaningful. But there was so much work to be done, and there was sort of no precedent to fall back on. 

So there were a ton of opinions from parents, teachers, students, and everyone under the sun about what education should look like, and what we should be doing. And I found myself working on projects until 9 pm at night. And there was this sense of, like, I have to get this done because this is really, really important work. And for me, you know, being stuck inside during this time, too, is like, you know, you can't plan vacations. And, like, I wasn't taking PTO because I was like, Well, I'm just stuck at home anyway. 

So I might as well just keep grinding and do all the work. So, I slowly found myself getting more and more tired. For me, it was really the physical sensations that indicated to me, like, oh, like, this isn't a sustainable way to work and, and to live. I'm very headache-prone. I was getting constant stress and tension headaches. My work involves staring at a screen, especially when working virtually at home. So, you know, the screen time on top of that wasn't helping, and then just the exhaustion because I would go to bed at night. And you know, I think about all the things that I have to do the next day, and I'd be anxious about that and getting that done, you know, there's so much to be done. 

So I wasn't sleeping well. And so I was waking up exhausted and then not able to do my work as effectively. And maybe that work was taking me a longer time than it would have if I had, you know, gotten a good night's rest and felt, you know, energized, coming and opening my laptop and delving into that work. So those are some of the signs, but I'll pause there and see what other questions you have. Yeah.

So, how long did you operate in this mode? Before you took because, you know, I've been there too many of the folks listening are entrepreneurs and leaders, and we can put our heads down and do that meaningful work and not realize how much time has passed us by and sort of ignore the signs. But then when we kind of reverse engineer, gosh, how long have I been in this state? How long have you been in that state of operation?

Yeah, I mean, the first couple of months. Like many people, and especially in the education world, we're kind of halted, so we actually didn't have a lot of work to do in the beginning. But then, once that ramped up, I was probably in it for around seven or eight months before I finally was like, You know what, something has to give here. This isn't sustainable, and something has to change. So it was quite quite a long time. And you know, I tried to implement some methods to care for myself in between that time. Got blue light glasses and things like that to try to help with some of the physical symptoms, going for walks, trying to find those moments of peace in between to help with the burnout. Um, but for me, that wasn't enough. Eventually, I ended up leaving that job to go somewhere else. But, you know, in burnout, that's not always the case. Sometimes, you can set stronger boundaries or things like that. But for me, that was sort of the right decision at the time.

Okay, wow. And so it sounds very typical when we're in that burnout mode and doing something meaningful. I know I experienced the transition of working from home. I mean, I have clients all over, but I'm definitely grounded enough for work. We can think, well, what's wrong with what's wrong with me? Let me do more. Let me do this, and all the things that I'm not doing to take care of myself, like exercise, blue light glasses, going for a walk, or meditating. But then it can be like we're adding more things to the schedule, which also contributes to burnout. And also, the connection piece, you know, during particularly the beginning stages of the pandemic, and even now, the landscape of how we work has shifted, and there's a lot more remote working. So we don't have that personal connection with people. And that's also an aspect of burnout.

Yeah, yeah, no, the connection piece is huge for me, and actually, you're making me reflect on this a little bit more than I have. However, one of the things I loved about that job was that before the pandemic, I was going to the office five days a week. And some of my peers, like I was very close, and still I'm very close with some of those peers, we had friendship, we got lunch every day. That connection really also brought meaning to my work and made me excited to go to work. So to have that aspect taken away, when we abruptly transitioned to virtual, and then my company, not really, you know, being a virtual company, and not having put the research and the work in to create those processes to create that connection virtually. That was missing in a lot of aspects.

Okay. Yeah, that's, I mean, that's so important. And a lot of organizations started hiring companies who specialize in that virtual space, and how can so here's the thing is like, we were kind of left there floundering, not knowing what to do. But then, at the same time, there are all these resources around us that we can tap into. There are people who specialize in creating connections in Zoom meetings. How do you do that? How do you produce an effective meeting that fosters that connection? So there were so many resources that I think came about, particularly or emerged; maybe they were already there, but they really just kind of floated to the surface during that time. 

It's important to consider whether organizations are continuing that work model or that hybrid work model; that connection piece is a big part. And, you know, if we don't have it, that can lead to burnout. So what happened then when you left your role, what, because it's hard if you're a type A achiever, and you're doing all the things and you're working toward this meaningful work, and we're not setting boundaries, and we're like I can take on the world, how did and once you're in that pattern, it's like these new neural pathways are carved out. And this is who we are. And this is how we engage day to day. So you know, sometimes leaving the role can help, but we still bring us wherever we go. So, how did you navigate in your new role? 

Yeah, um, so I transitioned from research and education to an E-commerce company, very much a for-profit company, so very different cultures, in the leadership development space, so it, you know, from the outside kind of looks like, oh, like, that's sort of a weird transition. But surprisingly, there were a lot of overlaps. It was a way for me to achieve more of that work-life balance that I desired in that position, but also to still sort of help people, fulfill some of those values, and do the work that I found really valuable. So, prior to my research assistant role, the work that I loved doing was coaching a school team to look at their data for red flags and sort of root cause analysis for student attendance issues. So what's really going on, so I love that like root cause sort of like let's go deeper, let's find the real issue and let's help versus punish a student for, you know, not getting to class on time or not getting to class a certain number of days out of the year. And another thing I loved was creating. I created these communities of practice for state education agencies to connect and share best practices to help navigate the new world in education during the COVID-19 pandemic. 

So I love facilitating that connection, preparing material to present to them, and then facilitating discussions, breakout rooms, and things like that. So, I actually have a very close friend who was a recruiter at the time. I went to him and said, Hey, I'm ready for something new. This isn't working for me right now. Here are the things that I love doing. And he works for my current company. And, you know, he was recruiting, of course, but he was like, hmm, you know, a lot of the things that you really love doing align with learning and development. We have this position open. Why don't you interview for it? Just see how it goes. 

So I interviewed, and the people were lovely. They were so driven by learning and development, and they also found a ton of value in helping people. They were driven by people. And that type of data versus, you know, the numbers and the dollar signs, like, that's not something that motivates me as much. So to sort of find that group of people that I'd be working with that have similar values, I was like, this is so important to me. And then I'd be helping people. You know, it's e-commerce. So, it's not as traditional as meaningful as helping students and educational outcomes. But I was still able to help those people in work achieve their full potential, and their leader, so they're helping their team members achieve their full potential as well. Wow.

So it sounds like you took all the things that you loved about your previous work and sort of crafted this model for how you wanted to work. And that's another thing that we talk about often. And sometimes we can do that, within our current position, to get clear on what the things that we love are. You know, what would you love spending your time doing? And is it possible to redesign your role to where you are? And if not, can you go somewhere else? It sounds like you sort of designed a role, and it just aligned with something that they needed. 

Yeah, definitely. That's a great point. And I think we have a lot more control than we think we do. And I think we're, when we're in burnout, we're almost like, this is happening to me, which is true to a certain degree. But there's, you know, it took me like, I was going to bed, I was feeling guilty, that I wasn't achieving everything that I could have achieved, or that I was feeling so tired, like, why can't I just find that energy to keep working and doing what I need to do? And then it was this realization of, like, no, like, I actually have the agency to change my current position. 

And, you know, to find the motivation to take steps to do that, for me, it was to go somewhere else. But as you said, you can also create boundaries in your current job, leverage your management, your manager, or your team leader, and try to find the work that is meaningful for you. My current company has internal mobility, that's a huge one where people are like, I don't have to go to a whole new company. But, you know, can I find a team or an open position that better aligns with what it is that I want to be doing and the values in the work that I find meaningful?

That's such a great, great way of looking at it. We don't have to go somewhere else. We don't even have to redesign what we're doing. If we have that internal mobility, we can move within if we notice that we're in burnout and then take a wider macro view of the system. Where else might I be a better fit? Or where else might something be a better fit for me, my values, and the things that I love doing? So you love your work? Is it aligned with your values? How do you know, having been through burnout? How do you kind of put the brakes on or notice because I don't know about you? But I noticed burnout and the feelings of it before it happened because I've experienced burnout, and I can catch myself. 

It's often counterintuitive to just cancel appointments and stop everything, but I'm more effective when I can notice it, stop it, set a boundary, and then reset it. How do you manage if you notice you're kind of working joyfully in the work that you love? And then you're like, Whoa, I need a sandwich.

Yeah, and it happens right like it does, but exactly what you said, like noticing those signs of I'm approaching that burnout stage and like, what can I do now? Again, going back, what am I in control of? What can I do now to sort of prevent that from happening? And it happens I'm in, I'm working full time, and I'm a full-time student. So, it has taken a lot of intentionality for me. Yeah, it's a lot of intentionality to sort of take care of myself. I also want to find those things that allow me to sort of take care of myself and make sure that my glass is not pouring from an empty glass. It's hard because, for me personally, I think what caused a lot of that burnout is it's sort of ingrained in me to sort of keep going, keep going, push through the work. And once you're done with everything you have to do, then you earn your break, right? And that's such a harmful way of thinking that's ingrained in so many of us. So for me, it's really like, how can you? There's always going to be work, right? There's really never an end to work. There are always new things on your plate. 

So how do I be okay with pausing and saying, Hey, maybe I didn't do everything that I set out to do today? Or maybe I didn't complete my whole to-do list. But how can I be okay, pausing going for a walk for 15 minutes, because you know, I feel that headache coming on. And you know, I don't want it to turn into a full-blown migraine and then prevent me from going to work and doing any work tomorrow. So let me go for that 15-minute walk. Let me call my mom and have a chat. Let me go out and grab a sandwich for lunch, like do those small things that, you know, make you happy, refill your cup. And do it consistently, not just when you know. Build it into your schedule to try to be proactive about it versus just when you start to feel the headache coming on, and you start to feel tired. For me, one big one is that I start to get irritable with people, especially people who give me another task. I'm like, Don't you know how busy I am? How dare you try to put more work on my plate? Once I feel irritable, I'm like, who? Yeah, that's a sign. I need a break; I need to do something for me. And then I need to, you know, approach this with a new mindset and new eyes tomorrow.

Yeah, you know, being proactive, as you said, is so important. And I always say put on your oxygen mask first before you can serve others. So, I build my morning. I don't put appointments on my morning calendar because that's my time. That's my time to exercise, meditate, journal, and ideate. So, generally, I won't have appointments during the week until after one or 2 pm. And it's just for a few hours, even coaching clients. For example, I have days where it's just coaching clients, and I don't have things scattered. I'm not everywhere for everyone and every time. So, I compartmentalize the tasks that I'm doing. So, I'm not task-switching. Ultimately, I put myself first, which sometimes can sound selfish, but I know that I perform at my best. When when I do that. I'm available, I'm present, and I'm focused on that individual, that client who I'm having that conversation with, or that team when I do that first; otherwise, they're getting maybe 70% of me. And that's not nearly enough, and that chips away at my level of fulfillment when we don't do as good of a job as we know we can. So it's this never-ending cycle. 

Yeah, no, it's me. You say it sounds selfish to me. I've, you know, maybe a couple of years ago, I would have been like, oh, yeah, but no, like, I've come to realize it's actually selfless like to take care of yourself and then go to those meetings because you want to bring your whole self to that. It's better to bring 100% to fewer things than 50% to a million things, which is how so many people are operating. And so I love that you're able to recognize how I take care of myself first and then fully take care of those other people.

Yeah, yeah, we're conditioned to honor the grind. Right? The other thing is not understanding the neuroscience of leadership is much more innovative and creative. When we broaden our focus, so we need to have those times when we're nothing. We're not working on anything in particular. We're just ideating it, so we are kind of working. So allow that nap. Allow that time allow. You know, just the meditation, the walk in nature, that the nothingness, allow that to be considered in your work. 

Yeah, no, I mean, there's a ton of research in those breaks. And you know, I'll go for a walk in the countryside or whatever. When the weather's nice, and Boston is nice, I'll go outside. But you know, you're thinking about something that you are working on prior to that, and all of a sudden, you're like, Oh, I just had a great idea. Like, let me keep that in my head, go back, write it down, and start working on that and the quality of your work. And like you said, creativity and innovativeness increase by taking those breaks and taking that time to reflect; it's like built-in reflection time.

Exactly. And when we're more innovative, we don't have to work as hard.

Yeah, work better, not not harder. Right?

Oh, my gosh, this has been really, really wonderful. I feel as though so many people are gonna resonate with what you're saying, and the experience you had, you know, what I heard through our conversation is one, first and foremost, that in order for you to get out of that phase of that cycle of burnout, you took aspects of the things that you love, you did some self-reflection and figuring out, what is it that I love, and then then you made a decision, I'm going to find something that encompasses these things. Even if you didn't know that that existed, you put it out there, you asked, you framed out the way that you want to work and something aligned with it. 

You were clear about your values and how they aligned. And then what I also hear you saying is you now know to set those boundaries, and you have those little triggers for you. It's like when you feel like that little inkling of a headache emerging, you know, it's time to step away and then take a break so that you can be more energized later when you do come back. Is there anything else that we didn't cover that you want to share with our audience? 

Hmm, we covered a lot in a short amount of time, but really, you summarized it very well, realizing that you have control over what you love and what's most meaningful to you in recognizing those triggers. For me, it's a headache. But just to bring that bodily awareness, you know, we're hunched over our desks and cranking out work, and then you know, we realize, oh, you know, I haven't been breathing properly, or sitting up straight, or, or whatever it is. Just bringing that to, you know, everything you do and trying to take a few deep breaths and recognize those things. 

One other thing I'll say: shameless plug therapy is great. Coaches are great, and they are taking advantage of those resources. You know, historically, there's a stigma associated with some of those things. But even if you're just like, hey, I'm stressed, you know, you don't have to have this big problem to take advantage of those resources. Therapy has been a wonderful resource that I will always advocate for others to take advantage of. 

Yeah, that's amazing. We don't have to go it alone. That's the beautiful thing. And every single one of us has blind spots. I've sought therapy. I have coaches for different aspects of my business and my life. And it's the critical thing that's helped me navigate to this point where I am today. So I would do that for anyone who's ready and willing to be coached or, yeah, that. Yeah, that's an incredible thing to do. Well, I want to thank you so much for joining us today. And thank you so much for pouring into our listeners today.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Thank you for inviting me. This is my first podcast, I was a little nervous going into it. But no, I enjoyed everything. It was just a conversation. And we covered a ton in such a short time, and it was a pleasure.

Oh, my gosh, my pleasure as well. And for those of you listening today, if you haven't listened to all the episodes on burnout, that's what season two is all about, which is dedicated to the topic of burnout. We have a few more sessions on this topic, as well as a panel and a wellness kit. We'll be bringing it to our audience as well. So dive in there, leave a five-star review wherever you listen to your podcasts on, and visit us on rat race reboot.com. We always have some free downloads. My book is up there now, so you can get the first chapter for free. And leave us your comments. See, you know, let us know if this has been helpful. I read your comments. And so we really appreciate you, and as we close today, remember that everything is created twice, first in our minds.